Curse

TB_ · Nov 19, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudin Tame

I've played one character completely through Nightfall and another about halfway and I'm just bored with it now. Is anyone else experiencing this? With the farming nerfs, AI nerfs, and now it seems there are fewer chests in zones, I just don't have any incentive to continue playing this game. I have eight more characters and there's no way I'm playing them through. The new AI and stuff was fun the first time through, but there's I have no desire to continue playing now. I have several guildmates who feel the same way, just wanted to see if we were the only ones.

So far Nightfall is boring as hell. There quests are few and far between and since they dont offer skills, i.e. something useful Im getting to the point where I may just skip the side quests. Missions are the worst, the Factions way was better (wow, factions better it must be bad). In Factions they designed the area around the mission and then opened it up, now although they didnt bother putting in content they use those areas in nightfall mission areas are now just misc zones no more special than a field with lots and lots of sand..... oh joy. Over all with the AI problems, the crazy agro and the fact that 90% of the paragon bosses have the cautery signet I think Im just going to rush through and get the skills and never set foot in elona again.

WasAGuest · Nov 19, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Let's also not forget; the AI is only one reason people are bored. My reason and it seems Saidra's are alike (which is sourced at the AI), but others are very different.

A lot of the hostility we keep seeing in here seems to be born of "it's the farmers complaining" or "you are supposed to PvP when you are done"... This is incorrect and has been debunked even by O'Brien on many occasions. In fact, the title of the game "Guild Wars" is said even in the maunal that it is refering to a piece of (guess what) PvE lore of a time period pre-dating pre-seering. So the PvP "pushers" are not only not on the current state of the game, but have been debunked by the head guy himself (read CGW feb 06 pre-Factions issue).

Sum of this is really simple to understand; which puzzles me why many don't grasp it. Nightfall is new. Not even a month old yet; however, we have threads (not just here either) of people saying they are bored. We have Anet saying that there is something "different" and "something changed" about the AI and they are "looking into what's been changed". We have a multi-tude of reasons all over the net of things players are fuming about... and not just farmers as many instantly assume. One only has to go look about and see them.

I've bashed Anet on their response time and I've really torn apart their current AI (which I think is beyond terrible); but I love the game, the lore and I even enjoy the Sunspear grinding for points... what I don't like, is the AI. This single thing has destroyed the game for me as it has removed the "fun factor".

Narutoscryed · Nov 19, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

A ton of people are right when they say this thread is bloated with bad posts. I myself am guilty for driving this thread off topic with bad posts..

Both sides have made some really good arguments and both sides deserve somthing for the efforts they have made.. some sort of clairification.

This game is just as much pve as it is pvp and i really think that any attempts to change that would not be in anets best intrest.

our arguments are not about farming being to hard. Myself, Tookis, And Pudin can probably outfarm 90% of the forum goers here.. so no its not about dificulty. what it is about is the fact that the ai did not solve anything.

I still farm, I still get perfect drops.. now more than ever in fact..

The difference is that the new ai makes all of these actions less fun. it has turned a fun activity into a tedious one.

The same goes for questing. its not fun when the monk runs regardless of the condition of the mob.. or you always have a certain aggro follow you all the way across the map.. sure you can get missions done hella easy even still..

i would say that i have not encounterd a hard mission yet.. but annoying.. i would say i have had my fair share of annoying...

To put this into perspective. i am going to use an expample of one of my in game experiences with the ai.. and compare it to before update..

Example: I leave the thunderhead keep mission outpost to solofarm mursatt
========
Before update: I run and aggro a mob of about ten mursatt and procede to kill them without much trouble.. i start with the monk first... goes down easy..

After update: I run and aggor a mob of about ten mursatt.. i then procede to chase around the monk mursat for about 5 minutes untill i finally have him cornerd.. i then proced to kill the monk.. and then the rest of the group....
=========

as you can see before the update took less time.. but after the update still yielded the same exact results.. so how can this update be called usefull? when half a mob runs at full health.. i wouldent call that usefull..

Now i can put it into terms of missions

Group before the ai nerf: group enters mission.. mission is tough but group is moving along nicley... group dies on hard group of baddies but manages to kill about half.. and groups monk backed off outside of aggro to attempt a rez... monk manages to rebirth entire party back to life and outside aggro range... group goes onto complete mission..

After the ai nerf: Group enters mission.. mission is moderate difficulty but the ai is running around so much that it makes pulling a usless tool. the monks are healing the mele so the the groups mele goes after the monk. the monk kites into another mob.. the mele group dies and the casters of the group soon follow... the monk runs in hopes of de aggro to get a rez in.. but the baddie group never de aggros.. thus the rebirth skill on the monks bar.. or any other rez skill.. is now worthless.. the group dies.. mission failed.. the group then realizes that going after the healer first in the mission only leads to trouble..

so instead on this try they just go after the closest target.. and make sure not to aggro any other mobs.. the going is slow because they have to fight the casters last.. but they eventually make it..

the mission took about 2 times as long as it normally would..

This is my opinion on the ai update.... its not that it hurts farming.. it just slows down questing and farming to the point of annoyance......

these baddies are levels above our own.. and they have ungodly hp regen and under certain conditions skills far beyond our own...

To put it in perspective for the pvp folks... your in ha and you have a group of lets say 6 lvl 20 players.. and ONE lvl 16 joined the opposing side to fight you.... would you run away???????

now with that answer you can take your pvp knowlege on that.. and now apply it to this..

20 lvl 28 baddies run from a single lvl 20 monk..

Would you be like the ai and run aswell????

keep in mind they are running about 10 seconds into the match... only a small ammount of damage has been delt so far..

I was even able to keep a heritic from shattering my enchants by just chassing it around for 2 minutes... i mean he HAS the skill to totally ruin me and he cannot use it because his AI brain says.. OH NO LVL 20 MONK.......RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ninna · Nov 19, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

Really, the AI is a fairly minor thing that is leading to boredome, it is not part of the main causes.

ive seen many people post in this thread stating that Farming isnt fun anymore (read: AI)

farming was their fun after they finished the game,
such as Prophecies

personally,
I was bored of Prophecies after 2 months

I had 2 accounts of 8 PVE chars that all finished the game
(none of them were run - I did all the missions and did all sidequests at least once)

heres what someone else recently posted about Prophecies

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

After completing proph 3 times and getting to the Ring with a 4th PC, I'm burned out. Plus the fact they nerfed farming means I have less incentive to go back for that purpose.

these boredom issues have been around since May 2005 -- its not about Nightfall

I'm having much more fun with Nightfall
- than Prophecies or Factions

Sidra · Nov 19, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

And I'd have to say that I had at on more fun in Prophecies than anything. But, I got the game in August of '05, played slowly, never participated in forums or anything, and only managed to beat it with two characters in february of '06. I was never, ever bored.

Ninna · Nov 19, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

thats kind of my point

farming aside...

you can play *any* of the 3 chapters for months, even years

but theres nothing special about the longevity of Prophecies as opposed to Nightfall

I like to "dig into" a game

I bought Prophecies in 2005 and had a great time but was bored with it after 2 months

some people bought Prophecies in 2005 and still havent finished it

and to those people I say, Nightfall offers the same depth

Sidra · Nov 19, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

I havne't found that much depth in Nightfall. They just lay it down with tons of sidequests and useless other things. Not much incentive to do them, since they sinked out skill traders and decided to axe skill quests, and the banana scythe quest was the only one with a cool reward or things like that. They also made quick-fix 2nd proff changing so much easier that its just like freaking 3k and you can buy them all for whenever you want, so no need to do THOSE quests anymore either.

Ninna · Nov 19, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidra

I havne't found that much depth in Nightfall. They just lay it down with tons of sidequests and useless other things.

I found Prophecies quests useless too - doing them more than once

its boring doing the same quest again and again and again

Prophecies with 8 PVE chars
Nightfall with 13 PVE chars

its all the same when you have more than 4+ chars

but at least NF is keeping me entertained (unlike Prophecies)

Sidra · Nov 19, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

^^ Quoting only that, and not the rest of the post, completely skews the point i'm trying to make.

Ninna · Nov 19, 2006, 09:54 PM // 21:54

I added more to my prior post but yes doing the *same quest* is boring if you do it 4+ times

but thats true for all chapters -- Prophecies included

Sidra · Nov 19, 2006, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Ah. Agreed.

Pudin Tame · Nov 19, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08

I'm really tired of having no goals in this game since NF came out. Something is wrong when 15^50 inscriptions are pretty much common. It took me forever to get a req.8 15^50 Storm Bow in Prophecies and that challenge just doesn't exist. Even if it did, the item would have no value so there would be no feeling of accomplishment.

byteme! · Nov 20, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudin Tame

I'm really tired of having no goals in this game since NF came out. Something is wrong when 15^50 inscriptions are pretty much common. It took me forever to get a req.8 15^50 Storm Bow in Prophecies and that challenge just doesn't exist. Even if it did, the item would have no value so there would be no feeling of accomplishment.

Ya the sense of accomplishment has somehow eluded me as well.

Sidra · Nov 20, 2006, 02:56 AM // 02:56

When player skill doesn't matter as much as being able to aggro the right things for your henchmen to butcher, it really gets tedious. Granted I love heroes, but I really do miss you having to support your henchmen, instead of them sitting around you in FORMATION XD laughing at you. Ah well. I like them being smarter, but not TOO smart.

The Great Al · Nov 20, 2006, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

Ya the sense of accomplishment has somehow eluded me as well.

exactly. caster weapon skins are still terrible, nothing is rare anymore, and once you beat the game, there's nothing to do except grind, which anet doesnt want us to do

Diva Signet · Nov 20, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

I agree that Guild Wars PvE has gotten boring, for a number of reasons, the new AI being the vast majority of it. I actually loved the NF campaign...once. I would never do it again because the monsters don't want to fight - they like running more. Isn't the purpose of the aggro bubble to show them noticing you and wanting to kill you - not noticing you and running at the first sign of a skill?

But the reality is - complaining is pointless. Props to all the people who get on and make themselves heard and all that - but in reality Anet isn't going to change anything back. Really...think about it. Are they going to come back and say, "Oops...we were wrong, setting the AI back to the way it was."?

And even if they did, there would be an outrage about how the farming whiners got their way and how Anet supports solo farming and all that. So why would they change it? It's not like that many more people are going to be happier - it's just a different set of people are going to be happy.

Don't get me wrong. In my opinion, the AI has just gone downhill from the first update. The mobs AI just makes them unrealistic, and Heroes just make everything single player. The only reason to play with real people is if it's friends, or Heroes aren't allowed...oh...wait....they're allowed anywhere. My bad.

What I think this game is moving towards is a single player experience if you like PvE, and then a completely seperate PvP experience. The two have nothing to do with each other. When Prophecies and Factions came out, people wanted to play through PvE, even when they were PvP focused people. Look at how many of the top PvP folks used PvE characters - yes, they were slightly better - but in my opinion that was a good thing. Give an advantage for playing the PvE game. Now you can buy the PvP pack with all unlocks and you never even have to set foot on Elonian sands. Guild Wars is becoming half the game it used to be - the meld between PvP and PvE that was advertised (and delivered) in Prophecies and somewhat Factions is non-existant.

What does that have to do with the topic? Simple - there is no reason to PvE anymore, and that makes the game boring because it has become one dimensional. It's not fun, and you don't get rewarded. I don't think people would work 8 hours a day without pay - why should Guild Wars be any different?

Yes...PvP is still fun, but except to the most hardcore of players, that's not the whole Guild Wars experience.

Summary: I wish Anet would bring back the charm of the original game before it was touched by AI updates and PvP/PvE "balancing". It was a wonderful blend of PvE, PvP, questing, farming, and yes...absurdly stupid henches that *gasp* made you find other people to play with. Sure...a Dolyak Master might have stood under a firestorm for it's entire duration...but I didn't see many people complaining about that. PvE monsters point is to die - if we wanted to fight against something that could outsmart us, we'd PvP.

But alas, it won't happen. Anet won't say they were wrong - even if they know they are. What I'm waiting to see is if anything gets better - the AI won't change.

Narutoscryed · Nov 20, 2006, 05:07 AM // 05:07

ya i also agree that perfect items and 15^50 stuff is all to common..

They sell for about 6k now.. and you can get any max drop and mod a great 15^50..

I think seince the release of nightfall i have had about 20 15^50 mods.. and im not kiddin.

Now i really dont mind perfect items.. but i like having a nice market...

i mean what is wrong with a market that makes people with no money have to use collectors items that are just as perfect.. but dont hold the same bling factor..

I think the sheer "everyone can have anything" path that anet is taking is a tad overdone...

I honestly can buy 98% of guild wars items now for under 10k... and that is sad.. because anyone can go out into a zone and farm a boss with henchies.. get a green.. sell it for 10k and have the purchasing power to buy almost all that gw has to offer in less than an hour...

I think items should be hard to get perfect.. i want that eliteism in the game.. because it really is only for looks.. but to players in pve.. thats all that matters..

and when folks in pvp wanna nice looking perfect item.. instead of a stock pvp item.. then they should play through the game and get one aswell..

this is all my opinion of course.. and not many people seem to share in any of the opinions i have

Quote:

But alas, it won't happen. Anet won't say they were wrong - even if they know they are. What I'm waiting to see is if anything gets better - the AI won't change.

Dont give up hope just yet.. Anyone can make a difference.

although rare it can happen.

dreamhunk · Nov 20, 2006, 05:31 AM // 05:31

why is gw pve boring there is not enough pve end game content. pvp players saying no mounts, no homes no ships. pvp player saying that gw is combat only game. Sorry not everyone is into pvp.the split between pve and pvp all started by pvp players. the first nerf of the elemental aoe was the starting stage of down ward pve.

look at nf, it has gotten better when anet improve the rpg. However i don't feel rpg and pvp will ever mix. wh they are different. there needs to better content I a sorry it will have to come or this game will die.

end game content really needs to be better, not just farming all the time. Anet is on the right track with rpg. however they really need to push way from farming and look at other fun content

i really beleave pvp is killing pve

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 20, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

How about just renaming this thread from "I'm bored" to just "General complaints about everything and nothing?"

I've seen complaints ranging from A.I. or item drops being too common to complaints about there not being mounts and complaints about PVP players ruining the game.

Xeupo · Nov 20, 2006, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakata

Winner.

Also, someone please explain to me what the difference between farming and PvP is, other than the prescence of other humans. Because honest to god, all it is is a big farming operation to me, to get more Guild rank or more fame or more Faction.

You are not the only one who feels that way. Pvp seems like more of a farm than pve does to me.

At least pve players, in my experience vs pvp, tend to be more civil and fun to play in a team with.